Ep. 173 - Rabbi Brad Hirschfield ”Stories from the Old Testament: Cane & Abel” pt. 3

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[00:01:14] I'm your host, John Williamson, and we're back with our friend, Rabbi Brad Hirschfield. And we pick up where we left off last time. So we've, we're continuing the Old Testament series. And on this first part, we cover the story of Cain and Abel.

[00:01:30] And then in part two, you'll hear us kind of continue that conversation into the story of the flood. I always think it's fascinating to hear the Jewish perspective, because again, you know, it it it seems silly to say it out loud.

[00:01:43] But sometimes we have to remind ourselves that Christians didn't write the Bible, any of it. So, you know, it's it's good to get the perspective of of the very people who wrote the Bible or the books and writings and letters and things that the Bible is comprised of.

[00:01:59] And so, as always, Rabbi Brad offers some some beautiful wisdom and a different way of looking at things. So hopefully you guys enjoyed it and hopefully you enjoy the next couple of weeks. And then we'll get into a couple more topics I'm really interested to dive into.

[00:02:15] So there's some guests that were really cool that were new that are coming up. So way more. And we're going to spill over into the new year. Typically, I wrap it up usually right around Christmas. But this year, there were too many good guests to not continue going,

[00:02:33] I guess, for lack of a better word. So we're going to continue. It's going to spill over into early January before I take a slight break. I am working on a rather extensive project for this podcast right now

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[00:05:16] Without further ado, I give you our dear friend, Rabbi Brad Hirschfield. Do you believe in love? Cause I'm alone. Do you believe in hell? Cause I am helpless. So let's talk about Cain and Abel. I think that's where we sort of left off before the sons of Adam.

[00:05:41] And so and talking about that story, you know, and again, it's it's it seems to be a story we see throughout a lot of stories in the Bible where there is jealousy sort of at the root of things. So talk about that a little bit. So it's interesting.

[00:05:57] We'll get into the story verse by verse a bit and whether or not actually it is a story of jealousy that's driving it. I think that's an open question. I think we've all been led to believe that.

[00:06:09] I think that violence does seem to be baked into the human condition. I remain, you know, an unrepentant messianist in the spirit of Isaiah. And so I not only hope for but believe that one day violence will not be part of the human condition.

[00:06:34] I couldn't get out of bed in the morning if I didn't really believe we were moving in that direction. And these days, that's hard. But no, I believe in that. But I think it's not an accident that among the earliest stories in Genesis are stories of violence,

[00:06:47] because I don't think the path to achieving a violence free world will be by just saying, wouldn't it be nice if there was no violence? It is to read the stories of past violence and learn from them

[00:07:00] and learn from them in ways that move us closer to a world without it. And I think that that even more than jealousy, although the jealousy piece is definitely there or maybe there, is what I think the Cain and Abel story is most about.

[00:07:14] Before we even get into that, let's let's just think for a minute about their names, right? Because the names themselves are almost like a great introduction to the story. Right. And to do this, you got to indulge a little bit of,

[00:07:27] you know, from English to Hebrew and then back to English. The name that we render in English is Cain is Cain. And we know from the time that he's born, Eve says, right, Ki Kaniti, I acquired or I possessed a son from the Lord.

[00:07:48] So Cain's name from the very beginning is setting us up to live as his name is one who is very concerned with who acquires what? With who possesses what? It's like baked into the story, because remember, I want to read this

[00:08:07] as great wisdom literature so people can believe or not believe whatever they want. So when you name your characters in a story, the author, we can leave that author God, the author, capital A, the author, whoever that is, little author, a bunch of old men in the desert.

[00:08:22] I don't care, actually. To call one of the two protagonists of this story. Mr. Acquisition and Mr. Possession is telling us something about how his life's going to play out. On top of that, his name has the oral resonance, Cain of Kina of jealousy.

[00:08:49] And we can talk about is jealousy going to be a baked in fact for anyone who defines themselves and their identity based on what they acquire and what they possess? My experience is, yes. And by the way, I'm an unrepentant materialist. I like stuff. Right.

[00:09:08] So I'm not saying that you don't you have to like say, oh, all stuff is bad. But I do think if you define yourself, the story is already pretelling us. By what you possess or what you acquire. I think jealousy is inescapable. Because there will always be someone

[00:09:29] who has more. And if you define yourself based on what you acquire and possess, then the jealousy is a given. In fact, even if you haven't found the person who has more, you'll always be worried about the person who has more,

[00:09:45] because if one's whole life is about possessing and acquiring, you're haunted by I could get more. So I think that that's on the Cain side of his name. And Abel's name in Hebrew is Hevel. Hevel is the Hebrew word for smoke.

[00:10:09] His name is already a name that suggests something ephemeral. Something passing. Something that you kind of know from the beginning is going to be there and then not. He is literally named after the wispiest thing, certainly in antiquity, people could know about. And that was smoke.

[00:10:33] Which is there and then vanishes. And then if we continue the notion of what that smoke is in a somewhat more negative way, in the book of Ecclesiastes, the same word is used for vanity. Mm hmm. Right.

[00:10:51] The idea that everything is vanity, Hevel, Hevelim, that everything is ephemeral. That's what the vanity means. There's that everything is passing. And so we literally have these two characters who are named Mr. Acquisition and Possession. And Mr. I'm here now, but I'll be gone in a moment

[00:11:13] because everything is passing. So the story from the very beginning is telling us what it's going to be about. That's one thing. The next thing is that Cain is the oldest. And we have to remember, and as we work through Genesis, we'll see more and more of this.

[00:11:33] The stories are continuously about the way the first born son, and it's always the son, is actually not necessarily the best. And that's a really important countercultural claim in antiquity. A world in which overwhelmingly. Boys are better than girls.

[00:11:54] And first born boys are better than all the boys that come after. Well, I'm first born, so I would agree. Well, so there you go. So you just know everything for the last 3000 years has been to tell you

[00:12:07] you really are the best, except the Bible comes and says not so fast. Moment of humility for me. The law of primogenitor, a fancy term for the first born son, gets more, inherits more, is more, deserves more. Over and over again, the Book of Genesis says maybe not.

[00:12:31] Maybe biology. Shouldn't define your destiny. Maybe just maybe here's a crazy thought. That just because you have a Y chromosome and you're the oldest of the Y chromosomes, you are not more precious to God and your parents.

[00:12:53] And so the fact that we're introduced to Cain is the oldest for anyone who's read the Bible through. They should already know there's a fall coming here because the Bible is constantly struggling to unseat the notion that just because you're a first born male doesn't make you better.

[00:13:16] And that's really important when you've started out human creation, where there are no siblings, there is no order. And we're told every single human is in the image of God. Well, you can't have every human be in the image of God

[00:13:28] and have a culture that's driven by primogenitor. That doesn't work. And so the moment we're told that Cain is the older brother, we should know there's going to be a problem here and he's going to need to fall. Right. That's just the way it is.

[00:13:43] The last piece about who these boys are is that we're told early on that Abel is a shepherd, whereas Cain is a farmer. Now, that becomes important because if I asked you quickly your image of one who is chosen by God,

[00:14:07] would you think first farmer or think shepherd? Shepherd. Right. Why? Yeah. Why do we go to shepherd? Yeah. I think of the shepherd as being the one who watches over the flock, you know, and make sure that all of the sheep are protected from the wolves.

[00:14:28] Yeah. Yeah. There is going to be a problem. Yeah. Yeah. There is going to be a preference for shepherds over farmers throughout this long story. And so by telling me originally that Abel is a shepherd and Cain is a farmer,

[00:14:45] again, it's one of those tips. Here's what's coming. On top of which farmers are rooted in the ground and there is an interest both textually and depending on how one reads the history of the evolution of the Hebrew Bible,

[00:15:07] especially the extent to which it is pitched to a diasporized people. You want to remind people the care of that which is entrusted to you is more important than where it happens. That landedness is overrated, but caretaking is not.

[00:15:31] And that's also going to be important because city dwelling versus desert dwelling is where that tension is going to play out. And we'll see later. City dwelling as far as the Bible is concerned, ain't all that, all it's cracked up to be.

[00:15:45] The idea of being in the desert, of caring for others, of caring for other things, of being somewhat itinerant, of your rootedness being in relationship more than in place is going to be very important. So for all of those reasons,

[00:15:59] we're getting tips about what this story of these two brothers and the first case of murder in the Bible is all about. Now with that said, you can look at some of the actual verses. And so I don't know how to do this any other way,

[00:16:16] but you should jump in and ask. I would ask people to take a look at Genesis chapter four, verse seven. And something really interesting happens in the translations are a little bit different. I use the one I use, which is the Jewish Publications Society, which is probably,

[00:16:33] I won't say the best translation because every active translation is a commentary, but it's the English translation that hews most closely to the Hebrew text. So we're told in that verse, surely if you do right, there is uplift.

[00:16:49] But if you do not do right, sin crouches at the door. Its urge is toward you, yet you can be its master. So that's kind of interesting because from the very outset, there's a suggestion and we're going to look at a Midrash, Rabbinic commentary later if you want,

[00:17:09] that is going to pick up on this, that the issue of temptation and sin is baked in to what is the meaning of being human. Right? If you do the right thing, it'll go well. If you don't, it won't.

[00:17:33] And the urge to do the wrong thing is always there and you can be its master. So it's a really interesting thing because on the one hand, we're sort of being told that this proclivity to do the wrong thing has been

[00:17:50] built in by the maker, by God in the story. And yet, even though that may be baked in, it doesn't need to determine our destiny. So that then leads us into telling them they each bring their sacrifice. And what immediately happens is, right?

[00:18:13] That's what we're then told Cain said to his brother Abel, that's verse. And when they were in the field, right? Cain said upon his brother and killed him. Well, wait a second. They had brought their offerings. God preferred one of the offerings to the other.

[00:18:31] Cain in verse five gets sad about it. We're told that he gets sad about it. And then God steps in and says, hey, don't, don't freak out because if you do the right thing, I'll be happy. If you don't do the right thing, I won't be happy.

[00:18:47] But the issue of whether you're going to go in the wrong direction, it may be that I've built that into you, but you can make a choice. And then the story of their offerings seems to end. And then they go off into the field

[00:19:04] and all of a sudden Cain kills Abel. Is that directly connected to the sacrifices or not? I don't know. I know we often read as, oh, he got jealous. He killed his brother. Then why put in this moment when they go off into the fields together?

[00:19:29] What happened? And we don't know the conversations. Cain said to Abel, his brother, and there's this, this ellipsis, there's this gap in the text. And when they were in the field, that's like begging. What did they say to each other? What happened?

[00:19:49] They walked into the field and really what happened? And why might it be that this isn't just a story of what to do with jealousy? And I'm really, you can't get it wrong. So I'm pulling the strings. Why? Because I've made it clear,

[00:20:16] And I'm really, you can't get it wrong. So I'm curious, have you ever looked at that and where in Christian tradition does that get filled in or is it just axiomatic? This was a jealousy story and that's just a little bit of a pause.

[00:20:31] They go into the field, it doesn't matter what they said and he kills them. Do you wish for someone who understands you like no one else? Someone who makes your wishes come true and wants to experience the most beautiful adventure of your life with you?

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[00:21:29] Powered by Shopify. Yeah, I feel like that's probably the case. Wait, I lost your volume. You gotta come back up. There we go. I feel like that's sort of what we do is in the absence of additional information, I feel

[00:21:45] like the kind of train of thought that we go with is, well, surely it was jealousy. Because it also kind of makes you think later in the Bible, you know, a sort of similar

[00:21:58] story, you know, Jacob and Esau, excuse me, where we sort of look at it from again, this sort of this jealousy perspective. I got something more special than you did, you know, whether it's a blessing or if it's

[00:22:13] God's favor, you know, and it definitely feels like, again, in the absence of additional information, I would love to know what they said to one another. Right? It's really hard to tell. Now, the reason I think it's important, one possible reason it may be important that it's

[00:22:28] not immediately connected to jealousy is most people, and remember, these stories are for us. If they don't speak to us into who we are, we're not reading them. Now, I understand the traditional argument, God gave us the book so we should read the book. I get that.

[00:22:53] And as I said to you, I actually believe in Revelation. So I'm not questioning the fact of that, but I know something else. It's at least as true that the reason people believed for those who do that God gave us

[00:23:04] these books is because we find ourselves in these books. In other words, we don't just read the stories because of where they came from. We read the stories because they speak to us in our lives. Otherwise, I think it's effective.

[00:23:18] If anything, if you really push me, I'd say I think we believe in the possibility that God gave the books because we find ourselves in the books, not the other way around. They are credibly sacred, whether that's a theology or not, because they have durable meaning.

[00:23:36] And the durable meaning they have is not because of who wrote them. It's because we are in them. And I think that while almost all of us experience jealousy at different times, most of us don't want to think of ourselves as jealous people.

[00:23:58] And I think that opening up the gap is a way of reminding us we all get into places of rage for a whole variety of reasons. And we can't always understand what is driving our rage. But we can understand that acting on it is always a bad idea.

[00:24:29] If it's only about jealousy, then you say, well, I'm not a jealous person, so I guess what I'm doing now is okay. As opposed to, we all probably do wrestle with jealousy.

[00:24:44] I think part of the deeper message is here, whatever is driving us, and none of us really always understand that. I know I don't. I know a lot of very evolved people. I don't think anyone really always understands what's driving them.

[00:25:00] But we can all be aware of the fact that whatever it might be, acting with that kind of rage never ends well. And I think that's a big piece of this story and goes back to what it means about you can be the evil urges master.

[00:25:19] You don't have to understand everything, but you can understand when you act based on that intuitive rage, even if it's justified. I get it. God chose one over the other. What kind of mean-spirited God is that? So I get it.

[00:25:32] It actually doesn't matter because it's not about God. And it's not about the sacrifices. It's about the choice we can make about whether to act on our rage, even when it's fully justified.

[00:25:47] I think a big piece of this story is reminded, even when your rage is justified, whatever that might mean, acting on it rarely works out well. And so immediately what happens? So you know, God having said that, they're out there and he kills them.

[00:26:04] The Lord said to Cain, where is your brother Abel? And then that classic response by the first question ever asked of God in the Bible. Remember last time we talked about the first question God asked of humans, where are you? Never answered.

[00:26:25] Now we're going to have the first question by people asked back of God. And again, never answered. Am I my brother's keeper? I don't know where he is, but that's not the question. That's just a lie. Am I my brother's keeper?

[00:26:43] And then God says, what have you done? Right? Again, there's something about the power of these major questions that are left unanswered. And I think they're left unanswered for the exact same reason the where are you is left unanswered.

[00:27:03] Because if you ask a great question and don't rush to answer it, it's now ours to answer. It's ours to answer. Are we our sisters and brothers keeper? I actually think you could make a very strong case for the fact that the entire rest of the

[00:27:26] Hebrew Bible is an attempt to respond to those first two questions. The question that God asks of us, where are you? And the question we ask of God, am I my sister and brother's keeper?

[00:27:43] And so it's quite purposefully not answered because that question is not just Cain's to answer. It's ours to answer. In all the different ways we could answer it. Right? So it's like the perfect parallel to the where are you?

[00:28:02] It is the great question which needs to, not that it never needs to be answered. I want to be clear. It's that it always needs to be answered over and over and over again by each and every one of us in our daily lives.

[00:28:20] That's the power of am I my brother's keeper in the Bible? The power is in the silence, isn't the restraint of a God who doesn't say you're damn right you are, you idiot. Because that would shut down the problem. We know that's the right answer in that moment.

[00:28:40] But the moment you answer it in that moment, you forget that's a question we need to ask every day when we open the newspaper, when we see the news. Because if Cain was meant to be Abel's keeper, then aren't we meant to be one another's keeper?

[00:29:00] However we understand that. By the way, we often talk about ways in which the story departs from kind of classical Christian understanding, and there may be a parallel to this, that the rabbis in the Midrash on

[00:29:13] their phrase which in Hebrew is HaShomer Achi Anochi, literally am I my brother's keeper? They flip it. And one Midrash from a time of the early church fathers says that the phrase should be read HaShomer. Isn't the guardian, that is God, my brother's keeper?

[00:29:41] Anochi, as the phrase that is Anochi is the first word of I in the Ten Commandments. And so the way the rabbis suggest you could read this verse is Cain saying back to God, Anochi, God, is supposed to be the Shomer, the keeper of my brother.

[00:30:02] In other words, you're asking me? Why didn't you protect him? Why did you choose his sacrifice over mine? Why did you set up this contest? I might be responsible for having taken his life, but you're not off the hook, God.

[00:30:28] Now for the rabbis, we're not talking about 21st century literary critics. We're talking about rather pious men. So why would they read it that way? Because it's definitely a stretch. You got to invert the words a little bit, but they all, if you parse the word separately,

[00:30:46] it kind of works. Right? Anochi, first word of the Ten Commandments, I am the Lord your God. So I, God, is the Shomer, is the guardian of my brother. So you'd have Cain, you ask me, aren't you supposed to be in charge here?

[00:31:04] And I think that is the next big pivot in this story. The question is that how many times would we like God to be in charge? But it's just not that simple. It really is up to us. Now we can believe in God, not believe in God.

[00:31:29] We can believe that ultimately God is in charge. And I actually do believe that. But being in charge is not the same as assuming responsibility. I have no problem with an act of faith saying, I think God's in charge. Okay, great. That doesn't change my responsibility one iota.

[00:31:52] And I think that's part of the story is that, and I think the rabbis are playing with that. No, no, no. We do believe that God is ultimately in charge. But let us be clear, Cain, you are your brother's keeper. They're both true.

[00:32:12] We can believe in an all powerful, all knowing God who ultimately is in charge. But you are no less responsible. I think it was, I know the theologian Abraham Joshua Heschel said it, but I believe he was

[00:32:37] borrowing from Dr. King of blessed memory, who looked into the world with all of its challenges and injustices and said, while only some are guilty, all are responsible. If you want to talk about who's guilty of Abel's death, you can blame God. Go ahead. You can blame God.

[00:33:08] God created all this according to the story. So blame God. Fine. But if you want to ask who's responsible for keeping Abel safe, it's his brother, Cain. And I think what the story gets at is the willingness, that midrash I should say, gets

[00:33:26] at is you can place all the blame you want. Doesn't absolve us of responsibility. And I think at some level, God kind of knows that in the story because God says you're going to wander and be, you know, hated and all this stuff's going to happen to you.

[00:33:55] And Cain says, this is unbearable. And we get that wonderful phrase, he's going to have what we call the mark of Cain. But the irony is the mark of Cain is not something which is meant to punish him. It's meant to protect him.

[00:34:10] If you look at the story, God says, right, you're going to be marked. And I promise, right, in verse 15 of chapter four, I promise if anyone kills Cain, sevenfold vengeance will be taken of him.

[00:34:24] The Lord put a mark on Cain lest anyone who met him should kill him. The mark of Cain, it's true, it does mark him as a murderer. There's no question because he is responsible. But why would God move so quickly to protect him in that way?

[00:34:42] Because I think there is an understanding of, I did play a role in this. And I do need to protect you. I think it's also really powerful to understand that even if it's all Cain's fault, and this

[00:35:01] kind of goes back to where we began this whole episode with talking about Gaza, it may be someone's fully their fault. You still have to try and protect them sometimes. No problem. It's your fault because God in the story, unlike the rabbis, doesn't take this.

[00:35:27] No, this is not my deal. This is all you. And you're going to get punished, Cain. And yet with all that, he's ready to say, but I'll protect you.

[00:35:41] And so I think that that story of the dual meaning of the mark of Cain, it is both a clear unambiguous statement, you did wrong. And as much as it marks you as a wrongdoer, it is also a way of making sure that you haven't

[00:35:59] surrendered the right to all compassion. So we're right back at this notion of being able to be morally clear and still have compassion, not choosing between the two. And then, you know, the last piece of the story that I find remarkably compelling is how Cain is punished. Right?

[00:36:25] He's punished and he's meant to wander the world. And what does he do? He goes and he has a kid. And now we're in verse 17. And he then founded a city and named the city after his son Enoch. You were just told you're meant to wander.

[00:36:45] And what's the very first thing you do? You build a city. But again, how often is that what all of us does? We actually understand what's messing up our lives. And our response is to double down and do more of it. Right?

[00:37:06] Here, you have Cain who's overly rooted in the ground. And he's so possessed of this sense that what he produces is what makes him him. That he goes into this murderous rage and is punished by saying, you got to detach from this brother. Go wander.

[00:37:30] And as a mere, no, I'm going to build a city. So I guess at the end of the day, for me, the power of this story is a couple of things. Is first that we're told from the beginning a lot of what's going to unfold.

[00:37:49] And in that sense, even with that phrase about sin crouching by the door, that God is also implicated in the failures of this story. And the fact that God is implicated in the failures of the story strikes me as an incredibly bold thing for the story to tell.

[00:38:08] Because it's not, you know, everything on God's side is exactly good and right. And these horrible people, especially horrible Cain, because he's possessed of this demonic jealousy, did this terrible thing. And he should be cursed forever. He really is more complicated than that.

[00:38:26] We come into the world with who we are. With what it, and again, it's not about excuse making. It goes back to this thing, and that's the core of the story. We all have to ask if we're each other's keeper.

[00:38:46] And that's not because we're always to blame for the things that have gone wrong in the world. The question of blame is one critically important question. And from the standpoint of this story, there are hints that it's not only Cain.

[00:39:06] In that Rabbinic Midrash, it's clear the rabbis are playing with the fact that it ain't only Cain. But it's also clear he is to blame. But the fact that he doesn't bear all the blame, but he is to blame, and it's a little murky, he is responsible.

[00:39:32] And so he is responsible, and that's why it's obviously a story of him failing at his job as a brother, as a fellow human being. But it doesn't let God off the hook either. And so when Cain says, I can't handle this punishment, right?

[00:39:50] It may be legitimate and just, in one sense of the word just. Where is your compassion? Whether because you're God or because you're God and you created some of this. And God's response, which is an acquiescence to that charge. You're right. You deserve protection.

[00:40:12] You may have done something unspeakable, but there is some measure of protection which you are going to get. It's funny, I don't think I realized when we talked at the beginning about the challenge of being compassionate and morally resolute that maybe that's why we're meant to talk

[00:40:27] about this story today. Because it really is about both of them. And then to understand that some of the compassion comes from the fact, because it's like bitterly ironic, Cain's meant to wander. What does he do? He builds a city. What got him into trouble?

[00:40:43] He was overly attached to place and ground. That we're all kind of like that in different ways. And we keep going back to the same problems that mess us up. Again, that doesn't mean we get a free pass on doing it. Cain doesn't get a free pass.

[00:41:01] It just means understanding that we tend to go back to those same proclivities and problems for reasons that are far deeper than the problem itself. And while understanding that doesn't give anyone a pass for the bad things they do,

[00:41:17] it might be a way we could view one another with a little bit of greater compassion and understanding, even as we are held accountable. And it's said, be. I am the ground beneath your feet and the holiness you breathe. So just be.

[00:42:23] Just an illusion, the future is fantasy. So just be.

[00:43:14] And I am the ground beneath your feet and the holiness you breathe. So just be. Just an illusion, the future is fantasy. So just be. So just be. Made for Germany. Powered by Shopify.