Episode Summary
In this two-part conversation, John sits down with Pastor Kerstin Hedlund, a U.S. Army Chaplain whose story offers a rare window into what faith looks like when it’s lived out in the hardest and most human places.
From her path into military chaplaincy to the deep questions that arise in the presence of trauma and moral injury, Kerstin’s perspective brings theology down to earth — into barracks, hospitals, and battle zones — where hope, compassion, and grief often collide.
Together they explore what it means to serve others in a system defined by hierarchy and discipline, how empathy and faith can survive amid loss, and why doubt and mystery might actually make us more compassionate people.
Why It Matters
Pastor Kerstin’s story reminds us that faith isn’t tested in seminaries or sanctuaries — it’s tested in the trenches of real life. Her honesty about doubt, fatigue, and renewal challenges the neat formulas we often attach to belief and invites us toward something deeper, more embodied, and more human.
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00:00 --> 00:00 [UNKNOWN]: You
00:11 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Deacon section as podcast, I'm your host John Williamson, and I wanted to share a really special conversation that I think captures what this show is all about.
00:21 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Curiosity, honesty, and finding faith that holds up in the real world.
00:25 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Today's guest is Pastor Kirsten Headland, a US Army chaplain who's story bridges the
00:37 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Kirsten has spent years walking alongside soldiers through moments of loss, fear, and hope.
00:43 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Bringing spiritual care into some of the most complex and emotionally demanding settings imaginable.
00:50 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: In this first part of our conversation, we talk about her path into chaplaincy, how our understanding of God has evolved through her experiences, and what it really means to embody compassion, and a system built on hierarchy and discipline.
01:05 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a powerful reminder that faith doesn't exist in theory, it's lived out often in the hardest places in a magical bowl.
01:12 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Settle in, this is the deconstructionist podcast, and this is part one of my conversation with Pastor Kirsten, Freakin, Headland.
01:29 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, welcome to the deconstructious podcast.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Kirsten Headlin.
01:32 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to have you on.
01:34 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining me today.
01:35 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me today.
01:36 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad to be with you.
01:38 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:38 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It was it was really a cool thing to have met you because we met through a sort of attending piece Lutheran Church here after having moved to Gahanna.
01:49 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And you happen to guess preach once Sunday and give this really cool sermon.
01:53 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought I've never had anyone on who does ministry within the context of the armed services.
01:59 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you've got a really cool background, but before we really dig to deep in your story, how did you get into ministry in the first place for a lot of folks?
02:06 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a second career or a set, you know, they go back to seminary.
02:11 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_00]: What was that path for you?
02:12 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, it was, I guess, the opposite of that, where I almost went, not exactly straight through.
02:18 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a really short time in the military as an Army intelligence officer before I transferred to the Chaplain Corps.
02:23 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_02]: But I would say, maybe I was an odd duck early on.
02:26 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt a call to ministry and thought I would serve as a parish pastor after getting out of the military.
02:33 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_02]: grew up in the military as an Air Force brat, so kind of had that background as well.
02:38 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_02]: But through the chaplaincy, I was able to fuse both military career and invocation in the ministry.
02:44 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's wild.
02:44 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So you were in the military before that in intelligence, so I mean, there's all sorts of questions now.
02:50 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking about that.
02:52 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Where are the aliens cursed at now I'm kidding, only sort of.
02:55 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you you found obviously what were some of the experiences that you had while serving where you thought hey I could really be a service here on the sort of religion side of things again.
03:04 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I felt called to the ministry maybe even before
03:07 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: for the military and so even as I had that very short period of service trying to transfer, I had wanted to serve as a chaplain.
03:16 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_02]: There were chaplains in my life growing up who were just instrumental in my life of faith and really appreciated their ministry, particularly when we were again as a child as an Air Force brat living in places that were maybe not really remote, but a little more remote than other places that the ministry that they were able to provide
03:37 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_02]: was something that drew me to military chaplaincy.
03:41 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Also at the time when I joined and became a chaplain, both I rack in Afghanistan, we're going pretty hard and heavy and I had friends who had already deployed some of their experiences and some of their stories, sort of pushed me to want to be a chaplain to provide religious and spiritual support to people who were in
03:59 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_02]: situations that we're pretty sticky and difficult.
04:02 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, it's, yeah, I can't even imagine and we'll definitely get in some stories there.
04:06 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So how would you describe your role?
04:08 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think one of the good things to establish a front is what is sort of the role of a chaplain for those who aren't familiar with how how that works within the military.
04:17 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think a lot of people are probably semi-familiar with like chaplains as, you know, as they operate within like a hospital, for example.
04:24 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But not so much maybe within the military.
04:25 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe lay that out for people a little.
04:27 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, so in the military we are all assigned at least I'm in the army every service branch is a little bit different similar in a way that we're assigned to a unit in the army we're assigned to a unit and so we live with our soldiers we work with our soldiers we eat with our soldiers especially in a deployed environment and so we really get to know our people in a way that is I would say more intimate than in the parish setting.
04:49 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_02]: We're called to nurture the living, to care for the wounded, and to honor the fallen.
04:54 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we do that across full spectrum of operations, both in war and in peace for families.
05:01 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_02]: We provide for the free exercise of religion for people regardless of what their religion is.
05:07 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And we prevent against the establishment of religion within the Department of Defense.
05:11 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So those are some of our central roles.
05:13 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot, right?
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_02]: you may have some questions.
05:16 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_02]: We also advise commanders on ethical implications of operations or how religion might affect operations.
05:21 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I gave you a lot.
05:22 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So we could kind of unpack some of no, that's that's a really interesting enough.
05:26 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Something I would have even considered.
05:28 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you talk about like sort of ethical implications and specific to, obviously as you mentioned, a lot of activity obviously during the last like decade, you know, within areas that are not, I would say per Christian, but like our areas with high concentrations of of of of Muslim folks, for
05:44 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of considerations from a advisory role are you making when soldiers are interacting with people in those geographical areas?
05:52 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, one of the things, and this is not necessarily a chaplain specific, but what your question just raised this up for me, there was a period of time when women were not in special forces, and the military decided, particularly in Afghanistan, that it might be a good idea to have women serving special forces
06:12 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, just ways of being in different environments that males had a harder time, you know, breaking into communities that were had a high population of females and maybe females had some influence in on the surrounding villages.
06:26 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And so to have, um,
06:28 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_02]: to have women be able to engage that way and sometimes chaplains were able to say hey these religious and cultural implications or the way that we're the way that we're doing operations maybe we should look at it from a different angle another thing that chaplains do sometimes is where we also have intelligence officers and and civil affairs officers, but just knowing sort of the rhythm of.
06:48 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_02]: religious life in different parts of the world and saying, you know what, maybe it wouldn't be a good idea that all of our soldiers come into this village at this time, because there is a religious event going on, could we wait 48 72 hours before we go in and the way that that's going to appear to the local population may land a lot better.
07:11 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's sort of along the lens of exactly what I was kind of wondering is just the considerations that you may take in regards to the fact that some of these societies like religion is at the forefront there, you know, as opposed to, you know, American society, which is a little bit more diverse or secular, where, you know, maybe maybe that's not as much of something that you might, you might have to think through before going.
07:34 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
07:35 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And another thing that we do is chaplains, we call it a key leader engagement.
07:39 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, particularly overseas and overseas operation, where you may be in a community or town or village that is ruled by a religious leader, rather than some kind of a political leader in the way that religion and politics play together.
07:54 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes those leaders will respond better to another quote unquote religious leader, even if that's not from their tradition.
08:00 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_02]: and commanders may bring a chaplain along with them as they're having conversations with the local leaders because of the way that religion is so influential in those kinds of communities.
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's fascinating.
08:11 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't look back on a history nerd, so I think back to the ways in which we may have handled things differently in the past and just sort of kind of barged in maybe,
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that lays out.
08:23 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So it sounds like, you know, there's, there's a lot more study and thought involved, um, you know, modern times just in regards to how religion does play such a major role in somebody's societies that we may interact with in a wartime setting.
08:36 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
08:37 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:37 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
08:38 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_02]: and for the soldiers for the soldiers we serve as well and their families.
08:43 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, talk about that.
08:44 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's one of the, I think the most interesting things for me is just the fact that I can only imagine, you know, I've got friends and family members who all have served at various times and in various capacities and some, I had a very, sort of, you know, um, you know, um,
08:59 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: you know experience that was sort of mundane and then others who saw the worst of the worst and for those who see the worst of the worst I can only imagine you know we talk a lot about on this podcast about the different scenarios in which you might find yourself deconstructing your faith and sort of reconstructing one of those things I can only imagine
09:16 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: that might throw you into onto the path of deconstruction would be seeing some of the horrors of war and starting to ask questions and starting to sort of question maybe your faith that you grew up with once you see, you know, just, you know, I think, well, I can't remember who the general is now, but you know, famous quote is War's Hell, you know.
09:34 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So talk maybe a little bit about some of your experiences with that and sort of trying to help minister to those who are really have gone through the worst of it.
09:43 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a really good question.
09:45 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Something I guess we could spend a lot of time on.
09:48 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And there are other chaplains who have had experiences very different than mine and other soldiers who have had very different experiences than than my soldiers.
09:56 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess coming from my
10:01 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't mean that I serve only Lutherans.
10:04 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I serve all soldiers and try to get them the care that they need, whether it be from the or from another chaplain.
10:09 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess core to my own religious identity is kind of this idea of God rising in the places where we don't expect.
10:17 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_02]: God to be and somehow out of the ashes something new rising and trying to translate that key component of my faith to soldiers who have been through some of the worst of the worst in order to give them some hope for the future despite what has been done to them or despite what they have done.
10:37 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I may be going I may be side tracking but I remember serving in a prison one time
10:42 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_02]: This was after deployment and after the deployment of several soldiers.
10:46 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them had served in Afghanistan in a unit that had unfortunately conducted some war crimes that were pretty horrific and a lot of them were younger soldiers who I think weren't fully aware of the implications of everything that they were doing and here they were in prison kind of wondering about what their future.
11:02 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_02]: would be in the military beyond and in life.
11:06 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And having the opportunity to come together with them and share worship services, share sacraments.
11:13 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a time when one soldier who had wronged the other soldiers and was the reason why
11:18 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_02]: They were in prison.
11:19 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I inadvertently asked him to share communion having to be on Ash Wednesday.
11:23 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And here he was who had done wrong things to people overseas and to these soldiers offering them the body of Christ.
11:30 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought there's gonna be a prison riot and here why did I do this?
11:33 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_02]: But every single soldier went up to him with tears in their eyes.
11:37 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And he with tears in his eyes as he offered them the sacrament.
11:41 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And at least in that moment, I felt a sense of reconciliation.
11:44 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_02]: The soldier had come up to me and he said,
11:48 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_02]: had been hiding the truth about what had happened for a really long time, hoping that I would have a future.
11:54 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm waiting in this prison wondering what that might be, but I've never felt more free in my life.
12:00 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And having the opportunity to have those honest conversations not knowing what the future would be, but knowing that somehow it rests in something larger than all of us gives me hope for continuing on, and at least again, in that instance gave him hope.
12:12 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_02]: He was after trial, eventually released from prison and able to move on with his
12:18 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_02]: But those are the kinds of stories and the kinds of people, maybe not necessarily fully deconstructing my faith, but opening me to evaluate it in new ways, and I hope I them.
12:27 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a story that really hit hard with me.
12:31 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you told that, you know, when you, that's right.
12:34 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And definitely had a few tears going, you know, in my seat in the back there, but, um,
12:39 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, it's such a powerful story.
12:41 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess, you know, not just from your perspective, but from, you know, the soldiers themselves, you know, witnessing these horrific things, you know, and potentially going through their own deconstructions.
12:52 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you approach, how do you approach books like that?
12:55 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And what sort of role does your ministry take in in those cases?
12:58 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I think allowing space for everybody to do his or her own deconstruction not trying to force my own beliefs upon them or force a path that quote unquote might be helpful for them because it worked for me or work for somebody else but allowing the space for the soldiers.
13:13 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_02]: to question, to lament, to wonder.
13:19 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope to hope is an approach that I take, always welcoming everybody to whatever I have to offer, but not pushing it, you know, pushing it upon them.
13:29 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_02]: particularly for those who have done things that they wish that they hadn't done also not offering any kind of consolation that might be too soon or too early for them.
13:38 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember listening to a documentary by Martin Dobelmeyer, I think, on chaplains and there was a chaplain who said as he was talking with a soldier who had done something that he wished he hadn't done and the chaplain saying, well, did you follow the rules of engagement?
13:53 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you follow the rules of this
13:59 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_02]: well then you're good.
14:00 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I think in conversations I haven't had a situation exactly like that that I wouldn't necessarily offer that to the soldier if he or she feels and their soul that they're not good to allow them the space to say you know we're all part of this complex world complex operation and sometimes we're called to do things that we couldn't or shouldn't do and how do we
14:20 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: How do we reconcile with that knowing it's not fully our fault, but we're all somehow implicated.
14:25 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Having those on allowing space for those honest conversations, I guess, is my approach that was a very long-winded response to your question.
14:32 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, that's a situation I'll contact you all.
14:34 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
14:35 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it makes me think back to, you know, I watch a lot of like documentaries myself and
14:40 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it brings to mind some of the documentaries about some of the soldiers who came back from Vietnam who, you know, in large part, again, a lot of these guys were young.
14:49 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It were kids, natures who were just following orders, but in some situations did some pretty horrific things like.
14:56 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:56 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: and hindsight and who are damaged forever, you know, returning back to United States and so often I think one of the frustrating things for me personally is seeing my friends who just don't seem to be getting the level of care upon return of that they so desperately need and so maybe you could talk a little bit about about that like what happens when soldiers come back to United States and are trying to reaclimate to life.
15:23 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: What role does chaplain see maybe served there?
15:25 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, so, um,
15:27 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a really good point too when soldiers come back kind of the reaclimation and in recent operations it's been it's been almost whiplash where you're in theater one day and and home so quickly thereafter where it's even in world war two there was a period of time coming home often times on a on a ship where you have sort of this cleansing period of sorts with other soldiers before going home and it's so quickly.
15:55 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_02]: The military does offer these soldier readiness programs, yellow ribbon programs, where soldiers come back together after being in theater, for after different periods of time, very sometimes it's 90 days after everybody comes together and has an opportunity to receive care from chaplains and also from other kind of
16:16 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_02]: mental health supports psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers.
16:20 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_02]: There are always chaplains back at the mobilization site and the demobilization site.
16:25 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So when soldiers are leaving fourth eater and coming back for theater, it's required that they all come to see a chaplain.
16:32 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say it's not necessarily the most effective way of doing things, but it does remind the soldiers that the chaplains are there at least.
16:40 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_02]: and then having the unit chaplains offer times for soldiers to come back together again within the unit to do some debrief type of events is another thing that we is another thing that we offer and kind of knowing what some of the opportunities are.
16:56 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Outside of the military, because sometimes soldiers in airmen, Marines don't want to receive care from chaplains because of what we represent just being part of the military and their other programs.
17:07 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_02]: My brother-in-law works with, I think, is called Healing Waters.
17:10 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Tom Broka was big in that.
17:12 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a fly fishing retreat for people.
17:14 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_02]: There are other different types of retreats that many of them are free for service members.
17:19 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And so knowing your soldiers and what might help them, they might not once receive care from you, but maybe something outside of the military would be helpful again like healing waters to give soldiers opportunity to decompress, to deconstruct, to reconstruct, to reconstruct and heal.
17:34 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:34 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That.
17:34 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of is a perfect segue into my next question, which is how is serving in the military shaped your understanding of community and belonging?
17:41 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Because there is a very different style of community within the military.
17:45 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You're in tight quarters, oftentimes, and you are remember reading about post World War II, the boom of fraternities and sororities, because there was this sort of a lack.
17:54 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_00]: you know of like this brotherhood that existed.
17:57 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they created like moose lodges and and all these different organizations so they could continue to have that sort of community and camaraderie.
18:05 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So what what has the the military taught you about that type of thing.
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_02]: say that the military has taught me the importance of community.
18:13 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_02]: We're really big on, you know, checking in on each other and making sure that we're okay.
18:17 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I have friends in the military with whom I haven't spoken in years and all of a sudden they say, hey, I'm in the area.
18:23 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I come spend the night at your house and the door is, you know, the door is open or I know a friend of a friend who's passing through your way.
18:30 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_02]: You've never met him before but could he come over and I feel like
18:36 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Brotherhood's sisterhood of soldiers that is deep and tight, again, because we are only together four short periods of time.
18:44 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we really make the most of getting to know each other as best we can and kind of seizing the opportunity to learn from each other, to grow from each other, and to know that our lives could truly depend on each other.
18:57 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
18:59 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can only imagine that although short periods of time, it's very condensed, you know, you're, you're, again, living together and I remember a friend of mine served in the Air National Garden and was over in Kuwait.
19:10 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, when everything kicked off and was sort of just helping soldiers, again, tight quarters, but sort of helping.
19:18 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: provide some level of entertainment, you know, while they, while they sort of waited for there for there.
19:22 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I can imagine it's a very, like, almost like, what do they call those?
19:26 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Look in a bridged course, you know, and in college, where it's, it's, uh, same amount of material just you know, you didn't like an intensive course, right?
19:34 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
19:35 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I think of.
19:36 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is particularly again when you're when you're mobilizing or deploying those those relationships that you make with people are very very deep and and and tight and when you talk about community I don't know why this comes to mind but I remember in training I was in I was in ROTC and you know we have these packing lists in the military and why do we all have to pack our backpack the same way as long as I have all of my stuff in my backpack.
20:01 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you care if it's in this pocket or that pocket?
20:04 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And I learned that if I were to get hurt and I needed something quickly, the person to my right or to my left would know exactly where my first aid kit was, exactly where my food was because we all have our packs packed in the same way.
20:21 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And so some of these things that we do in the military that we within the military are even outside of the military think of, well, that's dumb, it's just conformity.
20:28 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Some of it's more than conformity, but it's about, oh, it's about survival and about knowing how to serve each other and serve each other
20:34 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I John was young and driven
21:04 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Giving, giving, dying folks a shoulder and a hand Until he told his leaders that he had some feelings for another man And they said to him, you must go
21:29 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Take your broken heart and walk it through the door We know you're hearty and you've been giving But now your damage goes and you gotta get some more John we love you But we can't love you
21:59 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_01]: You must go Dan could sing a song in China the day while
22:26 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a decade sharing it and kept herself in line Until her eyes began to see the light inside the dark Then the floor of all she thought began to fall apart
22:58 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You must go, we didn't know your quest We're laid it down this road We know you're searching And you've been giving But now you wandered off and you got a wonder
23:32 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You must go Jane was born with skin, darker than her beard
24:00 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Spend a cycle telling them the reasons for her fears No one seemed to know or care about the past Then they showed her where she stood with every vote they cast
24:31 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's for your time, but there's no room for you When the power I'm lying, I know you're hurting When I feel snow
24:57 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So go where harder and you'll all be fine You must go So John and Jen and Jane were on the streets without home Abandoned by the one
25:32 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, try Don't you go I want your broken heart and beautiful soul I've felt your hurting I've seen you giving And I'll stay right here to have the power to stand
26:03 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't want you, but I know they me So let us go
26:33 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_01]: My people, the rejected and broken, and turned away, let us go And live out the plan made the money to the promise land To come out, and my people, the rejected and broken, and turned away, let us go And live out, and turn away, let us go