Ep. 179 - Doug Smith ”Growing up in a cult”

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[00:01:43] Welcome to the deconstructions podcast I'm Eros John Williamson and we're back with a brand new guest this week.

[00:01:49] A little heads up for those who are sensitive to language. There's a little course language used throughout the episode and also the subject matter is in regards to cults so if that's something that's particularly triggering for you just keep that in mind.

[00:02:06] But yeah, so we're talking about cults this week and I was for a wonderful guest by my former brother in law Kevin who's been on the podcast couple times is comedian out of New York and he has a friend fellow comedian from New York Doug Smith who happened to be a former member of the Jova's witnesses and has a podcast about it called Jehovah Boy.

[00:02:27] And so where he talks about sort of deconstructing or sort of unwinding or unpacking his experience in a what is considered an apocalyptic group you know who focus very much on the end times and so we've talked a little it's been a while we had a guest for those of you who've been around for a while or done a deep dive into our catalog.

[00:02:47] We had cult expert Steve Hassan on back in I think 2016 he wrote a wonderful book that's very, very interesting and informative called combating cult mind control it's the number one best selling guide to protection rescue and recovery for from destructive cults he himself was a member of a cult as well.

[00:03:07] And it's been a lifetime trying to figure out how they tick and I think initially he talks about in our interview you know trying to figure out why he was a target initially and you know why and how otherwise very intelligent people sort of get pulled into these things and there are certain techniques that are common throughout.

[00:03:28] And so it's fascinating to have Doug on to talk about his experience in the first person you know his first and experiences and sort of how his life was impacted by it and sort of the residual effects after he left so fastening conversation will get to.

[00:03:45] www.dconstructionist.com is our website where you can go to read our blogs working on a new one right now that should be up here with them the next week also all of our back catalog of episodes going all the way back to 2016 so 175 plus episode you can stream for free through the website the main page there in addition there's links to our patron if you want to support us there in addition there is a brand new link on our.

[00:04:15] Website to our brand new web store that has a ton of new options and also direct to print shipping so it's must much faster shipping direct to you.

[00:04:25] And tons of other brand new options and designs on there so check it out if that's something you're interested in otherwise let's get to it without further ado I give you Doug freaking Smith.

[00:04:36] Alright welcome to the deconstructionist podcast I've got my guest on Doug Smith thanks so much for taking some time out of your day to be with me.

[00:04:54] Thank you John good to be here absolutely so my boy Kevin it's always awkward when I introduce him now because I'm like former brother in law but like it's not weird for us so it should be for you.

[00:05:05] Hey for what it's worth I am closer to my former brother in law than I am to my own sister so perfect how the somehow that's how it works hey you know sometimes family is you know comes in strange forms and fashion so all good but yeah it's talking to Kevin and and Kevin said hey I got a buddy who's got a story that you might be interested in talking about so before we get into that though tell me a little bit about tell folks about who you are and I'm sorry I'm not going to talk about that.

[00:05:34] Absolutely. I am a divar and maybe get into a little bit about your back, okay, sure I wear many hats John I may husband father and comedian in New York City desperately trying to shake off the repercussions of my Jahovah's Witness upbringing I was I was in the Joe

[00:06:04] actually converted. I don't know, where are you located again? Columbus, Ohio. Columbus, Ohio.

[00:06:10] Okay. Yeah. They have boots on the ground in Columbus. I assume. Have you had them

[00:06:13] come to your door? Absolutely, especially in my neighborhood. There was a nice

[00:06:18] older lady who used to come all the time and she was not what I would call overly aggressive.

[00:06:24] So I always like would chat with her. She'd give me the magazine. You know, it was only once

[00:06:28] when she brought a guy with her and he started to tell me about the end of the world

[00:06:33] and things got weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They'll keep coming back unless you hit them with the

[00:06:40] hose or sick your dog on them. They need it. They need a hard no. But yeah, most people

[00:06:49] do not convert from their door to door ministry. Most people at best like you will give them

[00:06:59] a couple of minutes just to be polite. But most of the time they get the door slammed in their

[00:07:05] face or if at all, most people just don't even answer the door at all. They hide behind the

[00:07:10] couch and wait for them to leave. But my mom was one of the few people who she had. Jova's

[00:07:16] witnesses. So I actually didn't know the full story until a couple of years ago. And when I found

[00:07:21] out the truth, I was kind of flabbergasted. But so the truth is that my parents were living in my

[00:07:30] hometown in Richfield, Connecticut. And Jova's witnesses came to the door on a day where my dad

[00:07:37] happened to come home to let they had a new puppy. He came home to let the puppy outside,

[00:07:42] give him a little bathroom break and some lunch. And Jova's witnesses came to the door while my

[00:07:47] dad was home and gave him their whole pitch. And he said, you know what? This isn't something that

[00:07:55] I'm really interested in. But why don't she come back tomorrow when my wife is here? And they did,

[00:08:01] they came back when my mom was there. And she boom fell for it hookline and sinker. So after all these

[00:08:07] years of blaming my mom, I now all the all the fault lies with my father for inviting them back

[00:08:15] a second day. Unusual. Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm sure they did a double take. What? You want us to come back?

[00:08:23] Yeah. So that's how it all happened. And yeah, 20 years in the trenches. So I'm the youngest of

[00:08:31] four and all my siblings, they're much older than me. They're 14, 16, and 18 years older than me. And

[00:08:37] they all have functioning brains. So within time, when they hit their teen years,

[00:08:47] they started to exert their own willpower a little bit more and eventually fled the organization.

[00:08:56] And then all this pressure was put on me to kind of make up for the sins of my siblings.

[00:09:03] So I was the chosen one that was meant to fall in line and fight the good fight and stay in

[00:09:12] the organization. And then my mom passed away suddenly when I was 17. And that honestly

[00:09:22] was open the door for my dad and I to leave after we had kind of just been going along with it

[00:09:28] for a long time. And we kept it up for another three years because that's all we knew. It's a

[00:09:34] bit. You know, it's a very insular community. It's like a bubble. It's very restrictive and

[00:09:42] reclusive in a way. So even though the door was wide open for me to go out into the world and

[00:09:49] so my wild oats, I knew nothing outside of that community. So it took me three years to finally

[00:09:55] gain the courage to be like, I'm done piece out. So yeah, that's kind of the cliff notes of my

[00:10:04] story with the organization. Wow. So I think a lot of people listening are probably much like myself

[00:10:11] in the sense that like I know a little bit about it. Like I had some friends who I used to work with

[00:10:16] went back in my teenage years at Target who I knew were jov as witnesses and knew that they don't

[00:10:21] celebrate birthdays or something like that. And we would see the building, but like give folks

[00:10:26] kind of the high level overview of what what the belief system consists of. Sure. It's funny to

[00:10:33] me because of all the of all the cults out there and they're there's so many more than I ever

[00:10:39] knew about cult stuff is all the rage these days every I feel like every other day there's a new

[00:10:44] cult documentary on Netflix. Yeah, I feel like I feel like Scientologists have been the fall guys

[00:10:49] for a long time and you know there's plenty of dark weird shit that goes on there, but I don't

[00:10:55] even think they're the worst. And I don't it jov as witnesses are not really a far cry from that

[00:11:02] especially their belief system. I often say it sounded their belief system kind of seems like if

[00:11:08] somebody just ripped ripped out the pages of several different sci-fi books and then just jumbled

[00:11:13] them altogether. So they basically believe that they believe in in original sin they believe that

[00:11:21] sin was brought about through Adam and Eve eating that for bitten fruit and we are

[00:11:32] sin was introduced that way and we are living under Satan's regime this world is under Satan's

[00:11:38] control the outside world is referred to as Babylon the great in their organization and there's

[00:11:44] all this imagery that they use so my logo for my podcast Jehovah Boy which was my nickname in seventh

[00:11:53] grade. My logo for my podcast is kind of a spin off on on the imagery used to depict Babylon the

[00:12:02] great which is a drunken harlot riding atop a seven headed horned leopard looking beast and it's

[00:12:11] really cool. It's pretty fucking metal stuff if you ask me so very well the revelation.

[00:12:18] Okay yes yes so yeah even as a kid that was in the image that was supposed to like you know

[00:12:26] and still me with fear and I was like that's cool I want that I want to go to the dark side so

[00:12:33] they basically believe that we're living under Satan's rule in that

[00:12:39] we are we have been instructed by Jehovah that this is the this is the one true religion has most

[00:12:47] extremist religious groups believe that they have the one true religion and it is our mission to

[00:12:52] spread the news of God's kingdom far and wide to prepare everybody to give them a chance to survive

[00:12:59] Armageddon and they believe that Armageddon is very close at hand yet they have falsely predicted

[00:13:07] Armageddon multiple times so when the organization first started they believed that Armageddon was

[00:13:16] coming in 1914 or 1914 came and went they were like I think we were a little bit off on the

[00:13:21] math it's coming in 1975 75 came and went oh shit 2000 2000 coming in 2000 that came and went

[00:13:31] and now they've they've at least have enough smarts to be like you know what we're not going

[00:13:37] to hit a put up an exact date on it we're just going to say it's close all right just trust us it's

[00:13:44] very close at hand so they have been preaching this forever which is a bit of a tragedy because

[00:13:51] so many Jehovah's Witnesses have not invested in their lives on this planet in this system of

[00:14:00] things because they have put all their chips on Armageddon coming and wiping everything out and

[00:14:05] they believe that one Armageddon comes and obliterates 99.9% of the world's population

[00:14:13] that are non-believers that the earth will be transformed into a paradise where all of Jehovah's

[00:14:23] true believers living and dead they believe that the dead will be resurrected so all of Jehovah's

[00:14:31] true believers will live forever in perfect harmony with animals so man and beast living as one

[00:14:40] in perfect harmony on this paradise earth forever and they believe that a select few

[00:14:46] referred to as the 144,000 that have received this divine calling from Jehovah

[00:14:53] they will be resurrected to heaven when they die to rule over this paradise earth and serve as

[00:15:01] king priests alongside Jesus to rule over this paradise earth which again ruling what do you

[00:15:07] need to rule over an earth full of perfect people you know what's the need for the rule there

[00:15:14] it's a pretty ridiculous belief system and it's all about fear mongering you know you're being

[00:15:21] constantly reminded that Armageddon is close and if you fuck up and you don't put

[00:15:26] you don't fall in line and follow the rules to a tee which there are many it's all about restrictions

[00:15:34] so as you hinted at no birthdays no holidays of any sort and that's just that's a drop in the bucket

[00:15:40] you know so no alcohol or drug abuse no tattoos you can't vote you can't join the military

[00:15:50] there's no no pre-marital sex no dating before marriage no masturbation and these are all like

[00:15:57] punishable offenses it's not just like a fingerwag like if you get caught doing any of these things

[00:16:02] you are out on your ass and you're ostracized and you're completely cut off from your friends

[00:16:07] and family so it's all it's very much dependent on fear mongering and basically being threatened with

[00:16:17] abandonment if you if you leave if you stray from their belief system wow so there's there's no

[00:16:25] three strike policy there you violate any of those you know rules and you're immediately kicked out

[00:16:33] that's that's it yeah yeah I mean within basically they tell you that if you are truly repentant

[00:16:42] if you dropped your knees and and beg for mercy they might give you another shot but nine times

[00:16:48] out of 10 yeah you get caught you're out on your ass and and one of the things that I forgot to mention

[00:16:54] that most people actually wind up getting this fellowship for because it's a very easy slip-up

[00:17:00] to make is smoking you get caught smoking a cigarette that is grounds for divorce and the irony there

[00:17:07] is Jehovah's Witnesses cannot get divorced the only grounds for divorce is adultery so I actually saw

[00:17:16] you you're familiar with that that that that Scientology program that Leah Remini had on Netflix did

[00:17:27] you see that so she did she did a full episode just a just on Jehovah's Witnesses which was

[00:17:32] remarkable I highly recommend it and she had about 10 or 12 Jehovah's Witnesses directly talking

[00:17:39] about their experience really really tragic stuff in a every person in in their own unique way

[00:17:47] experienced absolute horrible things due to their involvement in the in this cult which I've also

[00:17:56] come to realize it is it is absolutely a cult it was started by one man it's run by basically the

[00:18:03] governing body as they call it which is like of the supreme court of the Jehovah's Witnesses it's

[00:18:07] eight old white guys they got one one token black guy in the mix the clearance Thomas of the mix

[00:18:15] and but other than that it's like he is the the governing body makeup all the rules and

[00:18:24] they you know so that it's run by it's run by a person or people there is money that is donated

[00:18:35] by its members that is funneled up the ladder to fund everything and of course the ostracization

[00:18:42] ostracization that happens or the shunning that happens if you question anything or stray from

[00:18:51] the belief system at all so it checks all the boxes you know if you if you look what makes a cult

[00:18:57] it absolutely is which of course they as with most cults they also deny that you know thoroughly

[00:19:07] but what was I hinting at oh yeah so the smoking thing so in this Leah Remini episode about

[00:19:16] Jehovah's Witnesses there was one woman who got married very young which again a lot of Jehovah's

[00:19:22] Witnesses they get married very young as soon as they can because there's no premarital sex so

[00:19:27] they they just want to their 40 teenagers that just want to get laid so they get married to the first

[00:19:34] person that gives them the time of day and then they realize that they have no chemistry and then

[00:19:39] you're stuck in this miserable marriage because there's no grounds for divorce the only one is adultery

[00:19:46] and this one woman was married to this guy who was horribly abusive like beat her within an

[00:19:50] inch of her life multiple times she was actually still disfigured from the abuse by this ex-husband

[00:19:57] of hers and was not able to divorce the guy because he didn't cheat on her he was allowed to

[00:20:02] beat her mercilessly every day but he didn't cheat on her so the elders were like hey you got to

[00:20:06] leave this in God's hands maybe you should watch the way you talk to this guy basically seriously like

[00:20:13] you know he is it's very it's very antiquated in their in their treatment of women as well

[00:20:22] women are viewed as the weaker vessel and to be and they're taught to be subservient to the man

[00:20:27] you know their husband is just one rung below God so the elders told her countless times like

[00:20:35] you know there's nothing you can do here and you got to stay with this guy and just just

[00:20:42] pray that he he eventually sees the error of his ways and stops beating the shit out of you

[00:20:53] every day and it went on for years and years and years and then finally this woman was able to

[00:20:59] take a video of this man smoking a cigarette and that was his ultimate undoing he was disphelo shipped

[00:21:07] that's what they call getting kicked out of the religion he was disphelo shipped and then since he

[00:21:12] was now out of the organization that was the one other grounds for being able to end this marriage

[00:21:18] with him wow a camel eye we have saved her life that's remarkable yes good grief yeah there are

[00:21:30] interestingly a lot of similarities there between what you're describing and some facets of

[00:21:37] evangelical Christianity especially in North America where you know it's a lot of shame-based culture

[00:21:44] and a lot of like if if you don't you know fall in line and believe these certain things or

[00:21:50] else you know which is you know we talk a lot about in the podcast is a terrible way

[00:21:55] uh you know it's not it's not a change of heart a change of heart isn't occurring here you know

[00:22:00] you were just falling in line because you were scared shitless that's ultimately what's happening

[00:22:04] here and that never seems to last we see stories of this all over the place cult or not like even

[00:22:10] within sort of more mainstream Christianity we see that happen yeah so like talk about what that

[00:22:17] was like though growing up because you were it sounds like fairly young you know and you were born

[00:22:21] into it and so how did that affect your sort of everyday life and your upbringing

[00:22:28] it's extremely demanding in terms of your time and energy I mean to be a devouch of as witness is a

[00:22:36] is kind of a full-time job so in addition to daily prayer and Bible study there are they actually

[00:22:45] cut back to two now which I think is hilarious but when I was growing up there were three

[00:22:52] church services every week and their church is called the kingdom hall so uh three times a week

[00:23:00] you have to go to the kid Tuesday night Thursday night and and Sunday morning or afternoon

[00:23:06] you are to report to the kingdom hall for basically a two-hour service every time

[00:23:11] uh and that is in addition to going out knocking on doors at least every weekend so it is uh

[00:23:22] you know my my weekends weren't free and during the summertime when most kids would be

[00:23:28] that's you know chomping at the bit to have their summers wide open to spend as they want

[00:23:34] I did something called pioneering and pioneering is when you devote a certain number of hours

[00:23:40] per month to the ministry so there's a lot of people out there that uh you're basically taught to work

[00:23:46] as little as possible have the most medial manual labor job possible that will not uh distract you

[00:23:55] or mental acuities so that you can be fully focused on the task at hand of being a good

[00:24:00] upstanding Jehovah's Witness so a lot of these a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses are financially

[00:24:06] destitute because higher education is off the table they don't want anybody teaching you

[00:24:12] how to be self-serving and and self-sufficient rather and think for yourself and aspire to

[00:24:19] anything greater than the organization so there's a lot of poverty in in the organization a lot of

[00:24:25] people work uh you know very low paying jobs so they can devote as much time and energy into the

[00:24:32] ministry as possible and every summer it was uh at the behest of my mother I had to uh spend one

[00:24:40] month of the summer I did devote 60 hours in the ministry so basically every day I was out for

[00:24:48] I could you know however you get to that 60 hours is up to you it would either be two hours every

[00:24:54] single day for the month or you know if I wanted some days off I would have to front load it you

[00:25:00] know maybe spend like five hours a day for one week and maybe five hours a day the next week

[00:25:08] but it was grueling you know so you get endorsed slammed in the face in your face all the time I do

[00:25:13] think you know try and always find silver linings and look on the bright side I do feel like being

[00:25:18] racist Jehovah's Witness definitely prepared me for a comedy career or a career in show business just

[00:25:23] constant rejection left and right sure sure lots of knows lots of not interested but um

[00:25:31] yeah so so the demand there just in terms of being uh an upstanding member of the organization

[00:25:39] it's it's exhausting and in addition to that uh the restrictions so no holidays um not being

[00:25:49] able to participate really in anything outside of the organization so like I went to public school

[00:25:56] but a lot of kids in my congregation were homeschooled because the thing there is which

[00:26:03] you know honestly if you want to keep your kids uh keep the blinders on and keep them really kind of

[00:26:13] um immersed in this in this bubble homeschooling really is the best way to do that

[00:26:19] because up until the age of five or six that's all I knew was this organization and then I go to

[00:26:25] school and I see all these kids that are living these happy go lucky you know fruitful

[00:26:33] lives where they have certain freedoms and joys in life that I did not have and you're just

[00:26:39] faced with constant temptation of all these things that you can't partake in so even outside of

[00:26:46] holidays you know couldn't go to school dances couldn't play sports couldn't do any extracurricular

[00:26:51] activities because I'm not allowed to associate with anyone outside of the organization is like you

[00:26:55] go to school because it's mandated by law you go to school you get your education and then you are

[00:27:04] to report immediately back to home you're not to fraternize with anybody that is a non-believer

[00:27:10] so I was a pretty you know I was pretty affable likable kid and so I was having to turn down

[00:27:18] play dates left and right when I was in kindergarten and then you know you get into middle school

[00:27:23] uh having people having girls ask you to go to a dance you're like I can I'm a joho was

[00:27:29] witness they're like I guess that means you gay okay uh you know uh getting to high school I was

[00:27:37] a fairly athletic kid but I wasn't allowed to play sports was allowed to go to prom you know

[00:27:41] wasn't allowed to go to any parties so you're just constantly faced with all these temptations that

[00:27:46] you're not allowed to partake in and um yeah it was uh it was it was tough I was constantly just seeing

[00:27:56] what the what the possibilities were in the outside world but also knew that if I was to partake

[00:28:03] I would be out on my ass and I would all that this community that had been supporting me um

[00:28:12] would completely on the drop of a dime would would have nothing to do with me and I knew that it

[00:28:17] would break my mom's heart too because like I said all my siblings left so there's all all

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[00:30:27] you know make up for their sins and tow the line so it's it's pretty demanding

[00:30:33] yeah and as you as you mentioned you know all your siblings kind of leaving

[00:30:38] before that I'm sure you know um I'm sure there were attempts made by your by your siblings

[00:30:44] to try to talk your mom out of it and like when you're when you were so indoctrinated at that point

[00:30:50] you know we talked to a called expert years ago um just about the different techniques and things

[00:30:55] that groups like that use and you know one of them is anything you read that's outside of the

[00:31:01] you know sort of approved curriculum is is of the devil it's bad you can't read it

[00:31:06] so it becomes very very difficult because of course immediately anything you say that's contrary

[00:31:12] to the belief system of that organization like of course that's that of course you would say

[00:31:18] that that's what the the evil ones want you to think you know so it's almost like this immediate

[00:31:24] defense mechanism that kicks in that is intentional obviously yeah yeah and you know when I was growing

[00:31:32] up I'm 40 so coming up through the late 80s early 90s even into the late 90s the internet then

[00:31:41] was not nearly what it is now obviously so there was not all this access like I think it's

[00:31:47] it's a truly beautiful thing that you're over as witness kids now have access to beliefs outside

[00:31:54] of what they're being raised to believe and and all this access to articles videos um

[00:32:03] podcast all this stuff that is reinstating the fact that this is a very very very dangerous cult

[00:32:10] and uh that there is that there is an out and they're able to hear firsthand experiences of people

[00:32:16] that were raised in this that were able to get out and live fruitful happy lives on the outside

[00:32:22] because you are taught when you're in it that if you stray from it you're gonna be destitute

[00:32:28] you're gonna be a homeless junkie you know split out in the gutter in your own shit you know

[00:32:34] they're just constant fear mongering in in every facet you can imagine uh that you're just going to

[00:32:41] get consumed by this evil pagan worldly system of things so uh yeah it's now it's it's uh you know

[00:32:51] I didn't I didn't really have any um resource growing up for what could be you know and

[00:33:01] and anybody that was on the outside I didn't have access to them so my own brothers uh who were

[00:33:09] who won one brother in particular who disassociated himself that's like that's like the equivalent of

[00:33:14] being like I'm not fired I quit so before he even got this fellowshiped he wrote a letter to the

[00:33:20] elders saying basically you know fuck you guys I'm out of here and he left of his own accord which is

[00:33:27] even worse you know like to to to plant your flag in that in that kind of apostasy and that that is

[00:33:35] how he's he's viewed now and myself too by proxy and you know like I have this podcast where I'm

[00:33:41] basically trying to um it's not I'm not trying to become too bitter and resentful about it because

[00:33:50] I uh I don't know I think that's there's a place for that but um and like I said I am trying to

[00:33:58] look for always trying to look for silver linings of what it did instill me with certain values in

[00:34:03] certain skill set um but for the most part I I too am considered an apostate now and but I wasn't

[00:34:12] allowed to speak to this brother of mine once he was disassociated he was completely cut off

[00:34:17] from my entire family so I went years at a time without seeing him or speaking to him

[00:34:23] so um the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses now that want an out and are able to have access

[00:34:30] to various media that can in you know show them that there is a way out I think is really remarkable

[00:34:37] yeah so talk about that a little bit that's that's kind of interesting because you mentioned

[00:34:41] earlier in the conversation that you know they're not particularly getting growing their base via

[00:34:49] you know the door to door sort of uh sales pitch as it were um so it sounds like they're growing

[00:34:56] mostly via you know the the fact that they're having kids and they're expanding in that way

[00:35:02] but as you said with the uh you know the technology that we have before us it seems like it might be

[00:35:08] more difficult to sustain a growing movement so what's your sense do you have any insight in terms

[00:35:14] of is it shrinking like are they having more difficulty like maintaining you know what's that

[00:35:19] look like now they are yeah and I followed I kind of got off base from point you originally asked

[00:35:24] me their numbers are shrinking and they too like you hinted at earlier they're very much discouraged

[00:35:29] from from using the internet basically at all and it's like it's it's part of our culture now I

[00:35:38] mean everybody has a smartphone I mean it's it's you are immersed in the world of the internet so

[00:35:43] you you are really constantly surrounded by these outside ideas even if they're not

[00:35:50] coming from directly from apostates you are surrounded by and being infiltrated with ideas that

[00:35:56] directly conflict with the belief system of the organization so they're constantly it's like

[00:36:02] you know whipping around a fly swatter just deflecting all these uh these pagan evil immoral

[00:36:10] beliefs that they think could be very damaging and contaminate the foundation of their organization so

[00:36:19] they're they're attempts to um not not even necessarily convert people but to keep

[00:36:29] people that are even born into the organization um out keep them shielded from those outside

[00:36:38] influences I don't know how they do it and I think any kid that has their finger on the pulse

[00:36:47] even remotely that has a social media account or has access to YouTube or Spotify or any of the

[00:36:54] things that we use on our devices on a daily basis it's just a matter of time before they start to

[00:36:59] question things and you know I question things as a kid but I couldn't do a Google search I couldn't

[00:37:06] look I couldn't look up our job was went this is a cult is this bullshit is arm again real

[00:37:12] is premarital sex gonna um uh is is that going to ensure my place in hell you know like I wasn't able to

[00:37:21] do look any of that up and get any sort of outside information so the fact that that kids now

[00:37:31] are able to find out first hand without their parents being able to do anything about it other than

[00:37:38] possibly just not allow them to have a but there's so many ways to go around that you know even if

[00:37:44] their parents are like no smartphone if I get you caught on the like they can go to the library like

[00:37:49] there if you want to question things you will find out the truth so the fact that their numbers are

[00:37:57] dropping is not surprising to me at all and the fact that I mean I can't I can't imagine being

[00:38:04] I think that there are so many people and there's terms now that are being used in the javaswinn

[00:38:08] this organization that I was not that didn't exist when I was growing up so one of them is is

[00:38:14] pimo and and uh pomo which is acronyms pimo is physically in mentally out and pomo is physically

[00:38:25] out mentally out so I would be pomo I suppose but there are plenty of pimos sounds insane anybody that's

[00:38:32] just tuning in right now or skip to add as like what the fuck is this guy having a stroke

[00:38:37] so people that are people that are pimo physically and mentally out um it's because and I'm sure

[00:38:45] that there are legions of them at this point people that know that it's bullshit they know that

[00:38:52] there is a world that exists outside that would be lead to much greater happiness in contentment

[00:38:59] and allow for so many more opportunities and possibilities that stay in the organization because

[00:39:05] it's all they know and and out of fear of losing their family and friends in this support system

[00:39:09] that they've had around them their whole lives so there's a lot of jahobas witnesses that are

[00:39:16] you know that are faking the funk and really half-assing it just out of fear because they're afraid

[00:39:21] that really you know jump in the pool of the of babbelon the great headfirst yeah um talk about

[00:39:30] that a little bit like what was the thing that first started to to form a crack for you in the whole

[00:39:35] thing and then I think what would be interesting for listeners now is like where do you find yourself

[00:39:39] now because for a lot of folks you know a lot of folks who are listening you know in fact have had

[00:39:45] some sort of maybe not you know experience with a cult but certainly had traumatic religious experiences

[00:39:50] at some point along the way and you can go one of many directions after that like there are some people

[00:39:56] who find their way back to a different form of a more grace-filled loving tradition of some kind

[00:40:02] or there's some people who are like fuck the whole thing I want nothing to do with it so you know

[00:40:09] yeah so how about you know in your situation um well you know I had like I said I had older siblings

[00:40:16] who were very into pop culture and music and film much to my mother's dismay so I remember seeing

[00:40:25] MTV from a very early age and being immediately just captivated by it I mean I specifically remember

[00:40:36] seeing the premiere of smells like teen spirit on MTV when I was yes it was 91 I was I was eight

[00:40:43] years old and it was kind of haunting and scary and I was like who are these guys and I wouldn't

[00:40:50] even say I necessarily liked it but it was alluring to me like this is this is like real rebellion

[00:40:58] here I could just tell like this is the complete antithesis of everything that I'm being raised

[00:41:03] to believe and it became like MTV became like this forbidden fruit and from from a very early age I

[00:41:12] would watch MTV being completely just hypnotized by it so music very early on was like my portal

[00:41:22] to the outside world because my mom could um there was a lot of restrictions on my intake of

[00:41:33] entertainment so like no certainly no R rated movies a lot of PG 13 movies were a no-no and even

[00:41:39] outside of that anything that had any sort of um dabbled any at all with the with the occult I

[00:41:48] wasn't you know I didn't see ghost busters well into my 20s because ghost busters even though

[00:41:53] it's a comedy movie is like it's dealing with evil spirits that way if you watch that just

[00:41:58] out of the invite to be able to see that yeah in embarrassing too to call myself a comedian I never

[00:42:03] seen one of the you know most renowned comedy films of all time but as like you know you watch ghost

[00:42:09] busters you're inviting evil spirits into your home you can't listen to Led Zeppelin because

[00:42:14] they talk about the occult Jimmy Page bought Alistair Crowley's house and if you listen to Led Zeppelin

[00:42:20] the evil spirits are gonna transmit through your headphones directly into your brain like

[00:42:27] constantly being inundated with the threat of being overtaken by evil but music was very very

[00:42:34] alluring and also something that was much easier to get away with you know because I can listen

[00:42:38] to the radio at a low volume in my room you know I could go to the mall with one of my older siblings

[00:42:44] and get a CD and sneak at home and be able to listen to that or listen to it on my disc man my mom

[00:42:48] still any music that she was aware of she would immediately comb through the liner notes and if

[00:42:54] she saw any explicit language straight into the garbage I wasn't allowed to resell it or anything

[00:42:59] it was just like nope this is your punishment you spent money on this filth just going straight

[00:43:04] into the garbage but music was definitely and still is it that's like my main my main portal to

[00:43:12] the to the outside world so that I really kind of and I remember as a as a I was 11 years old at

[00:43:19] the time I remember being at a Jehovah's Witness party their big party is graduation parties high school

[00:43:26] graduation and I think the reason they celebrate that so much is because you're finally free of

[00:43:32] you know secular education now you can really re-immersorsel in the organization there's no other

[00:43:38] distractions now so high school graduation parties that's that's like the biggest celebration of your

[00:43:43] life outside of you know I don't know I guess a wedding ceremony I remember going to some kids

[00:43:50] high school graduation and it was when Woodstock 94 was taking place and at 11 years old I

[00:43:56] remember sneaking up to my friends parents bedroom and turning on the television and watching you know

[00:44:02] live footage on MTV of Woodstock 94 and just be like oh my god like those people are they're

[00:44:08] free and they're expressing themselves and they're like they're they're they're they're

[00:44:14] giving art to the world and look how much these people looked at them like gods and like everything

[00:44:19] about it was just like man I want I want that so bad so that definitely kind of planted the seed

[00:44:28] in me also in terms of like a per you know being involved in the arts and performing and I don't

[00:44:34] have any real musical ability but I knew that I wanted to be involved in some aspect of performance

[00:44:40] from a from a pretty early age um and then so what was it was the part two of your question I'm sorry

[00:44:49] yeah so after all of that now where do you find yourself now in terms of how you view spirituality

[00:44:55] and things of that nature right right so when I left when I was 20 after feeling so burned by

[00:45:03] organized religion and really just the idea of god in general I just went out with two middle

[00:45:10] fingers aimed at the heavens you know I wanted nothing to do with god or spirituality of any sort

[00:45:15] um and then when I left I kind of completely went off the rails you know as a lot of joeves when

[00:45:21] this is due just trying to make up for lost time so drinking drug sex just trying to get it all in

[00:45:26] after being you know not able to acclimate at a at a reasonable rate starting in a fairly early

[00:45:35] age you know living a normal adolescence where you kind of dipping a toe in the water and assimilating

[00:45:41] to adulthood it was like basically going from a child to oh god the world is my oyster I can just

[00:45:50] fucking gobble it all up and it can be extremely it can be really damaging there's a lot of

[00:45:57] joeves witnesses that wind up alcoholic drug addicted suicidal because they're not able to handle

[00:46:05] they're not able to they're not equipped with a skill set to function in the outside world and

[00:46:13] it's extremely overwhelming and they just get consumed by all these things that they were

[00:46:20] that were forbidden growing up and they they don't know how to utilize anything in moderation

[00:46:26] you know it's just it's just gobbling it all up with tenacity so I was no stranger to that myself

[00:46:32] I moved in New York to do comedy and when I came here I saw what New York had to offer and I was

[00:46:38] just a full blown alcoholic whore for four years just like I said just trying to make up for last

[00:46:44] time and you know eventually settled down I married I have an eight year old son and I am I'm actually

[00:46:53] seven month month sober and a big part of sobriety and recovery is spirituality and and looking to

[00:47:02] a higher power for guidance but another thing that comes with that is being able to redefine

[00:47:08] that higher power so after growing up with with God being this vengeful punishing judgmental

[00:47:18] man in the sky being able to redefine my higher power as just the universe and not something that's

[00:47:27] against me but something that's actually guiding me and just much greater than me in terms of

[00:47:33] I just kind of take tremendous comfort in insignificance and that nothing I do or say really has

[00:47:40] any real ramifications on the universe as a whole um and so now spirituality is a huge part of my life

[00:47:50] and I pray every day which is something that I never thought I would do again you know I get on

[00:47:55] my knees and pray every day to a very different God and um it's I'm living a life now that I never

[00:48:05] thought I would in terms of praying constantly trying to connect with a higher power meditating

[00:48:13] and it still feels weird you know uh it really does it still feels like I and I have to catch myself

[00:48:20] too when I pray from not reverting back to this knee jerk reaction of starting my prayers with

[00:48:26] dear Jehovah you know I'm gonna be like oh no that's not who you're praying to anymore you're not

[00:48:30] praying to Jehovah this is your God man you've you've redefined it this isn't this isn't him

[00:48:36] this isn't something you're like subservient to this is something that's greater than you but

[00:48:41] can guide you and direct you so that you don't feel like the way to the world is on your shoulders

[00:48:47] and and not having to end my prayers within Jesus name amen you know it's it's my approach to it

[00:48:53] is very different my expectation um is very different and I also I just don't feel like I'm being

[00:49:01] judged and watched the way I once was I feel like it's something that can you know hold my hand

[00:49:07] and and guide me on the right path and it's um yeah I was in I was in a really dark place for a long

[00:49:14] time and and I really and I really saw the the ramifications of my upbringing after wanting to deny it

[00:49:21] for a long time when I first left I didn't want to talk about it it's like yeah I was raised

[00:49:25] Jehovah's Witness it's just a weird religion no big deal completely denying the massive impact

[00:49:31] it had on my psyche and my the way I handle relationships the way I relate to people the way I feel

[00:49:37] about myself and so through you know years of therapy uh a newfound approach to spirituality

[00:49:49] and recovery and and also through doing the podcast and talking to other people that have had

[00:49:54] similar experience it's really been tremendously helpful to me but yes spirituality is

[00:50:01] it's a big it's a big part of my life now and never thought I would say that wow that's that's

[00:50:06] a remarkable uh turn of events and just a credible story so I know we've got a other things to get

[00:50:13] to here in a few minutes so I want to be aware of your time and but I appreciate you coming on this

[00:50:20] is fascinating tell people real quick where can they go to step on top of what you're up to your

[00:50:25] comedy your podcast all that good stuff sure um so I uh as with as with many other things that I've

[00:50:34] battled the addiction problems I have limited myself to one social media platform

[00:50:43] trying to exercise moderation in the world of social media so you can follow me on instagram

[00:50:48] at who Doug Smith and that's basically where I post all my links to upcoming live shows

[00:50:55] podcast clips there's there's links to my podcast and website on there um but yeah podcast is called

[00:51:04] Jehovah Boy you can subscribe to my youtube channel youtube.com slash ad who Doug Smith

[00:51:12] might got a patreon going now with with all sorts of bonus content for the podcast patreon.com

[00:51:17] slash Jehovah Boy so uh yeah um if you if you come from a religious extremist upbringing and you

[00:51:26] want to hear more tales of of people um uh sharing their religious trauma Jehovah Boy's it's the

[00:51:34] pod for you and it's been it's been a blast to do and this is this is great too man it's great to be

[00:51:39] a guest on someone else's pod as well so I appreciate what you're doing as well.

[00:51:45] Thanks man yeah I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story and again thanks for your

[00:51:50] time today I appreciate you coming on. No problem thanks Sean.

[00:52:20] we could keep others away in the name some so called safety

[00:52:31] yeah

[00:53:01] No church would have we done

[00:53:08] No church

[00:53:14] When will we ever see

[00:53:20] Until we're all treated the same

[00:53:24] And nobody is actually free

[00:53:34] Oh church

[00:53:39] You started to pay the way

[00:53:46] To our irrelevancy

[00:53:50] Cause we've driven the other away

[00:54:00] Cause we sold our soul

[00:54:07] For a little bit of power and control

[00:54:13] And we left home

[00:54:18] And those were called to love

[00:54:25] I guess they're not enough

[00:54:31] Oh church what have we done

[00:54:35] But there is hope

[00:54:38] Somewhere to go

[00:54:41] Someone to feed, someone to eat

[00:54:45] Someone to clothe

[00:54:48] And who are we

[00:54:51] If not redeemed

[00:54:55] Bringers of peace and just still sweet and whole

[00:54:59] Oh church what have we done

[00:55:07] No church what have we done

[00:55:15] Maybe it's the other source

[00:55:22] To be rid of all the power and control

[00:55:30] And maybe it loses health

[00:55:36] For those were called to love

[00:55:43] Who church that that be us

[00:56:43] Or diving in a gorgeous wreath

[00:56:46] It's up to you

[00:56:47] No purchase necessary go to 5he tie dot com

[00:56:50] For official rules and to enter

[00:56:52] That's 5he tie dot com

[00:56:54] Enter today, end June 30th, 2024